diff --git a/ChangeLog b/ChangeLog
index 5cd95dc8..52e1e299 100644
--- a/ChangeLog
+++ b/ChangeLog
@@ -37,6 +37,7 @@
 - dzsave to szi will write all associated images
 - remove old c++ and python interfaces
 - vipsthumbnail can thumbnail animated and multipage images
+- deprecate webpload @shrink, use @scale instead
 
 31/3/19 started 8.7.5
 - better buffer sizing in tiff reader [omira-sch]
diff --git a/libvips/foreign/pforeign.h b/libvips/foreign/pforeign.h
index cee9102a..0f2c304f 100644
--- a/libvips/foreign/pforeign.h
+++ b/libvips/foreign/pforeign.h
@@ -226,14 +226,14 @@ int vips__iswebp_buffer( const void *buf, size_t len );
 int vips__iswebp( const char *filename );
 
 int vips__webp_read_file_header( const char *name, VipsImage *out, 
-	int page, int n, int shrink ); 
+	int page, int n, double scale ); 
 int vips__webp_read_file( const char *name, VipsImage *out, 
-	int page, int n, int shrink ); 
+	int page, int n, double scale ); 
 
 int vips__webp_read_buffer_header( const void *buf, size_t len, VipsImage *out,
-	int page, int n, int shrink ); 
+	int page, int n, double scale ); 
 int vips__webp_read_buffer( const void *buf, size_t len, VipsImage *out, 
-	int page, int n, int shrink ); 
+	int page, int n, double scale ); 
 
 int vips__webp_write_file( VipsImage *out, const char *filename, 
 	int Q, gboolean lossless, VipsForeignWebpPreset preset,
diff --git a/libvips/foreign/webp2vips.c b/libvips/foreign/webp2vips.c
index 5bb3e20c..0faf3b57 100644
--- a/libvips/foreign/webp2vips.c
+++ b/libvips/foreign/webp2vips.c
@@ -17,6 +17,9 @@
  * 	- could memleak on some read errors
  * 24/4/19
  * 	- fix bg handling in animations
+ * 30/4/19
+ * 	- deprecate shrink, use scale instead, and make it a double ... this
+ * 	  lets us do faster and more accurate thumbnailing
  */
 
 /*
@@ -90,9 +93,9 @@ typedef struct {
 	 */
 	int n;
 
-	/* Shrink-on-load factor. Use this to set scaled_width.
+	/* Scale-on-load factor. Use this to set scaled_width.
 	 */
-	int shrink;
+	double scale;
 
 	/* Size of final output image. 
 	 */
@@ -325,7 +328,7 @@ read_free( Read *read )
 
 static Read *
 read_new( const char *filename, const void *data, size_t length, 
-	int page, int n, int shrink )
+	int page, int n, double scale )
 {
 	Read *read;
 
@@ -337,7 +340,7 @@ read_new( const char *filename, const void *data, size_t length,
 	read->length = length;
 	read->page = page;
 	read->n = n;
-	read->shrink = shrink;
+	read->scale = scale;
 	read->delay = 100;
 	read->fd = 0;
 	read->demux = NULL;
@@ -394,10 +397,12 @@ read_header( Read *read, VipsImage *out )
 
 	canvas_width = WebPDemuxGetI( read->demux, WEBP_FF_CANVAS_WIDTH );
 	canvas_height = WebPDemuxGetI( read->demux, WEBP_FF_CANVAS_HEIGHT );
-	read->frame_width = canvas_width / read->shrink;
-	read->frame_height = canvas_height / read->shrink;
+	/* We round-to-nearest cf. pdfload etc.
+	 */
+	read->frame_width = VIPS_RINT( canvas_width * read->scale );
+	read->frame_height = VIPS_RINT( canvas_height * read->scale );
 
-	if( read->shrink > 1 ) { 
+	if( read->scale != 1.0 ) { 
 		read->config.options.use_scaling = 1;
 		read->config.options.scaled_width = read->frame_width;
 		read->config.options.scaled_height = read->frame_height; 
@@ -521,11 +526,11 @@ read_header( Read *read, VipsImage *out )
 
 int
 vips__webp_read_file_header( const char *filename, VipsImage *out, 
-	int page, int n, int shrink )
+	int page, int n, double scale )
 {
 	Read *read;
 
-	if( !(read = read_new( filename, NULL, 0, page, n, shrink )) ) {
+	if( !(read = read_new( filename, NULL, 0, page, n, scale )) ) {
 		vips_error( "webp2vips",
 			_( "unable to open \"%s\"" ), filename ); 
 		return( -1 );
@@ -606,10 +611,10 @@ read_next_frame( Read *read )
 	/* Note this frame's dispose for next time.
 	 */
 	read->dispose_method = read->iter.dispose_method;
-	read->dispose_rect.left = read->iter.x_offset; 
-	read->dispose_rect.top = read->iter.y_offset;
-	read->dispose_rect.width = read->iter.width;
-	read->dispose_rect.height = read->iter.height;
+	read->dispose_rect.left = read->iter.x_offset * read->scale; 
+	read->dispose_rect.top = read->iter.y_offset * read->scale;
+	read->dispose_rect.width = read->iter.width * read->scale;
+	read->dispose_rect.height = read->iter.height * read->scale;
 
 #ifdef DEBUG
 	printf( "webp2vips: frame_num = %d\n", read->iter.frame_num );
@@ -715,11 +720,11 @@ read_image( Read *read, VipsImage *out )
 
 int
 vips__webp_read_file( const char *filename, VipsImage *out, 
-	int page, int n, int shrink )
+	int page, int n, double scale )
 {
 	Read *read;
 
-	if( !(read = read_new( filename, NULL, 0, page, n, shrink )) ) {
+	if( !(read = read_new( filename, NULL, 0, page, n, scale )) ) {
 		vips_error( "webp2vips",
 			_( "unable to open \"%s\"" ), filename ); 
 		return( -1 );
@@ -737,11 +742,11 @@ vips__webp_read_file( const char *filename, VipsImage *out,
 
 int
 vips__webp_read_buffer_header( const void *buf, size_t len, VipsImage *out,
-	int page, int n, int shrink )
+	int page, int n, double scale )
 {
 	Read *read;
 
-	if( !(read = read_new( NULL, buf, len, page, n, shrink )) ) {
+	if( !(read = read_new( NULL, buf, len, page, n, scale )) ) {
 		vips_error( "webp2vips",
 			"%s", _( "unable to open buffer" ) ); 
 		return( -1 );
@@ -759,11 +764,11 @@ vips__webp_read_buffer_header( const void *buf, size_t len, VipsImage *out,
 
 int
 vips__webp_read_buffer( const void *buf, size_t len, VipsImage *out, 
-	int page, int n, int shrink )
+	int page, int n, double scale )
 {
 	Read *read;
 
-	if( !(read = read_new( NULL, buf, len, page, n, shrink )) ) {
+	if( !(read = read_new( NULL, buf, len, page, n, scale )) ) {
 		vips_error( "webp2vips",
 			"%s", _( "unable to open buffer" ) ); 
 		return( -1 );
diff --git a/libvips/foreign/webpload.c b/libvips/foreign/webpload.c
index 367dbd72..545fc793 100644
--- a/libvips/foreign/webpload.c
+++ b/libvips/foreign/webpload.c
@@ -6,6 +6,8 @@
  * 	- add @shrink
  * 1/11/18
  * 	- add @page, @n
+ * 30/4/19
+ * 	- deprecate @shrink, use @scale instead
  */
 
 /*
@@ -64,9 +66,13 @@ typedef struct _VipsForeignLoadWebp {
 	 */
 	int n;
 
-	/* Shrink by this much during load.
+	/* Scale by this much during load.
 	 */
-	int shrink; 
+	double scale; 
+
+	/* Old and deprecated scaling path.
+	 */
+	int shrink;
 } VipsForeignLoadWebp;
 
 typedef VipsForeignLoadClass VipsForeignLoadWebpClass;
@@ -120,10 +126,20 @@ vips_foreign_load_webp_class_init( VipsForeignLoadWebpClass *class )
 		G_STRUCT_OFFSET( VipsForeignLoadWebp, n ),
 		-1, 100000, 1 );
 
-	VIPS_ARG_INT( class, "shrink", 22, 
+	VIPS_ARG_DOUBLE( class, "scale", 22, 
+		_( "Scale" ), 
+		_( "Scale factor on load" ),
+		VIPS_ARGUMENT_OPTIONAL_INPUT,
+		G_STRUCT_OFFSET( VipsForeignLoadWebp, scale ),
+		0.0, 1024.0, 1.0 );
+
+	/* Old and deprecated scaling API. A float param lets do
+	 * shrink-on-load for thumbnail faster and more accurately.
+	 */
+	VIPS_ARG_INT( class, "shrink", 23, 
 		_( "Shrink" ), 
 		_( "Shrink factor on load" ),
-		VIPS_ARGUMENT_OPTIONAL_INPUT,
+		VIPS_ARGUMENT_OPTIONAL_INPUT | VIPS_ARGUMENT_DEPRECATED,
 		G_STRUCT_OFFSET( VipsForeignLoadWebp, shrink ),
 		1, 1024, 1 );
 
@@ -134,6 +150,7 @@ vips_foreign_load_webp_init( VipsForeignLoadWebp *webp )
 {
 	webp->n = 1;
 	webp->shrink = 1;
+	webp->scale = 1.0;
 }
 
 typedef struct _VipsForeignLoadWebpFile {
@@ -168,8 +185,15 @@ vips_foreign_load_webp_file_header( VipsForeignLoad *load )
 	VipsForeignLoadWebp *webp = (VipsForeignLoadWebp *) load;
 	VipsForeignLoadWebpFile *file = (VipsForeignLoadWebpFile *) load;
 
+	/* BC for the old API.
+	 */
+	if( !vips_object_argument_isset( VIPS_OBJECT( load ), "scale" ) &&
+		vips_object_argument_isset( VIPS_OBJECT( load ), "shrink" ) &&
+		webp->shrink != 0 )
+		webp->scale = 1.0 / webp->shrink;
+
 	if( vips__webp_read_file_header( file->filename, load->out, 
-		webp->page, webp->n, webp->shrink ) )
+		webp->page, webp->n, webp->scale ) )
 		return( -1 );
 
 	VIPS_SETSTR( load->out->filename, file->filename );
@@ -184,7 +208,7 @@ vips_foreign_load_webp_file_load( VipsForeignLoad *load )
 	VipsForeignLoadWebpFile *file = (VipsForeignLoadWebpFile *) load;
 
 	if( vips__webp_read_file( file->filename, load->real, 
-		webp->page, webp->n, webp->shrink ) )
+		webp->page, webp->n, webp->scale ) )
 		return( -1 );
 
 	return( 0 );
@@ -249,7 +273,7 @@ vips_foreign_load_webp_buffer_header( VipsForeignLoad *load )
 
 	if( vips__webp_read_buffer_header( buffer->buf->data, 
 		buffer->buf->length, load->out, 
-		webp->page, webp->n, webp->shrink ) )
+		webp->page, webp->n, webp->scale ) )
 		return( -1 );
 
 	return( 0 );
@@ -263,7 +287,7 @@ vips_foreign_load_webp_buffer_load( VipsForeignLoad *load )
 
 	if( vips__webp_read_buffer( buffer->buf->data, buffer->buf->length, 
 		load->real, 
-		webp->page, webp->n, webp->shrink ) )
+		webp->page, webp->n, webp->scale ) )
 		return( -1 );
 
 	return( 0 );
@@ -317,7 +341,7 @@ vips_foreign_load_webp_buffer_init( VipsForeignLoadWebpBuffer *buffer )
  *
  * * @page: %gint, page (frame) to read
  * * @n: %gint, load this many pages
- * * @shrink: %gint, shrink by this much on load
+ * * @scale: %gdouble, scale by this much on load
  *
  * Read a WebP file into a VIPS image. 
  *
@@ -328,7 +352,8 @@ vips_foreign_load_webp_buffer_init( VipsForeignLoadWebpBuffer *buffer )
  * left. Set to -1 to mean "until the end of the document". Use vips_grid() 
  * to change page layout.
  *
- * Use @shrink to specify a shrink-on-load factor.
+ * Use @scale to specify a scale-on-load factor. For example, 2.0 to double
+ * the size on load.
  *
  * The loader supports ICC, EXIF and XMP metadata. 
  *
@@ -360,7 +385,7 @@ vips_webpload( const char *filename, VipsImage **out, ... )
  *
  * * @page: %gint, page (frame) to read
  * * @n: %gint, load this many pages
- * * @shrink: %gint, shrink by this much on load
+ * * @scale: %gdouble, scale by this much on load
  *
  * Read a WebP-formatted memory block into a VIPS image. Exactly as
  * vips_webpload(), but read from a memory buffer. 
diff --git a/libvips/resample/thumbnail.c b/libvips/resample/thumbnail.c
index b6b96956..bb01e8c1 100644
--- a/libvips/resample/thumbnail.c
+++ b/libvips/resample/thumbnail.c
@@ -510,12 +510,12 @@ vips_thumbnail_open( VipsThumbnail *thumbnail )
 
 	}
 	else if( vips_isprefix( "VipsForeignLoadWebp", thumbnail->loader ) ) {
-		factor = (int) VIPS_MAX( 1.0, 
+		factor = 1.0 /
 			vips_thumbnail_calculate_common_shrink( thumbnail, 
 				thumbnail->input_width, 
-				thumbnail->page_height ) ); 
+				thumbnail->page_height ); 
 
-		g_info( "loading webp with factor %g pre-shrink", factor ); 
+		g_info( "loading webp with factor %g pre-scale", factor ); 
 	}
 
 	if( !(im = class->open( thumbnail, factor )) )
@@ -940,7 +940,7 @@ vips_thumbnail_file_open( VipsThumbnail *thumbnail, double factor )
 		vips_isprefix( "VipsForeignLoadWebp", thumbnail->loader ) ) {
 		return( vips_image_new_from_file( file->filename, 
 			"access", VIPS_ACCESS_SEQUENTIAL,
-			"shrink", (int) factor,
+			"scale", factor,
 			NULL ) );
 	}
 	else if( vips_isprefix( "VipsForeignLoadOpenslide", 
@@ -1134,7 +1134,7 @@ vips_thumbnail_buffer_open( VipsThumbnail *thumbnail, double factor )
 			buffer->buf->data, buffer->buf->length, 
 			buffer->option_string,
 			"access", VIPS_ACCESS_SEQUENTIAL,
-			"shrink", (int) factor,
+			"scale", factor,
 			NULL ) );
 	}
 	else if( vips_isprefix( "VipsForeignLoadOpenslide",